Curse

Chaotic Legend · Jan 15, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I would just like to see other people's views on what they carry for condition removal as a monk in RA/TA.

I recently started monking again in RA to try to get a good look at a large number of the weird builds and skills that I would have to go up against in TA. I was runnning a divine/prot bar with the skills

Rof
SoA
spirit bond
sig of devotion
mending touch/mend condition
zealous benadiction
holy veil
res sig

I could handle the majority of the hexes that were thrown on me with veil but was having difficulty with conditions. I started with mend condition and had no problems unless i got heavy conditions on myself, or if I got dazed. In which case my teammates had no way of getting it off me and I had to wait it off, sometimes resulting in my death. Then I switched over to mending touch, made myself pretty much condition free but found I could not keep blind off of melee characters without putting myself at risk while running to the frontline. I thought about putting two condition removals in my bar but then decided that was overkill and not a good idea for build synergy. I thought about mend ailment as well but did not like the 5 second recharge. Purge signet seemed pretty extreme to use even with a negative energy set swap during use.

So my question is for RA play, when you can not count on a teammate to remove conditions, what skills or strategy do you use to remove conditions off of yourself and teammates.

*lemming* · Jan 15, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Res sig is bad on monks. I'd suggest a self-preservation skill there (return, shield bash, hex breaker).

Purge Sig and CoP are non-spell ways to get Dazed off yourself. Since CoP sucks without an enchant that you'd usually have on yourself, you probably want Purge Sig.

atreyu83 · Jan 15, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Imo i would say it's not necessarily a waste to bring 2 condition removals. In RA i happen to be a fan of bringing mend condition And mending touch. Mend condtion provides a 100 point low recharge heal + removal on allies and mending touch really helps your tanking ability. I find that there are many matches were the only skills i had to use to win were those 2 alone. As far as dazed goes In RA without COP your pretty much dead most of the time. TA teams typically have an off monk condition removal to support the monk agaisnt dazed this is not the case in RA. My recomendation for dealing with dazed in RA which is quite common atm is brining COP. If you do that you would need an enchant that synergizes with cop to maintain a good choice would be Vital boon from the dervish earth line.

An example of what i run Very successfully in RA

Zealous benediction
Mend condition
mending touch
gift of health
Vital boon
Conviction
Contemplation of purity
Sheild of absorption

strengths - Very strong tanking power (necessary in RA) ability to quickly remove dazed and critical hexes. Ability to keep allies alive
Weakneses - No hex removal for allies, cannot deal with diversion

Another build for you to try

Zealous benediction
mending touch
mend condition
Gift of health
Sheild of absorption
Dark escape
Return
Holy veil

Strengths - Avoids having to tank in the first place by kiting with return and dark escape, can deal with diversion , can remove hexes from allies
weakneses - cannot deal with dazed

In RA I am not a fan of protspirit/spiritbond rarely do you have to deal with that kind of high damage focus fire. Although i used to always run Reversal i have found it to be unnecessary Provided you have personal defence in the form of return/darkescape or conviction/vital boon.

Of course if you really insist on running 1 condition removal just run Dismiss condtions, low recharge ranged removal for you and allies

Absum · Jan 15, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

draw condition + mend condition

Divineshadows · Jan 16, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absum

draw condition + mend condition

I believe Absum meant draw conditions + mending touch.

I agree with the opinions voiced so far in this thread. For RA, you either bring dismiss condition (mend ailment's recharge is too high) or you bring two condition removal skills such as draw+mending touch or mend condition+mending touch.

For dealing with dazed in RA, purge signet or pre-veil+SoA+cop are definately the way to go. Luckily both purge signet and CoP are also useful for dealing with hexes so their use is not strictly limited to dazed.

For TA, the monk's build works in concert with the team build as a whole so the amount of condition and hex removal on the monk's bar depends entirely on the rest of the build. I personally feel that TA monks should run draw conditions though due to 1/4 second cast allowing you to quickly get rid of blinds and to quickly save someone from a spike by drawing the deep wound. The usual cast order for spike saving is reversal of fortune and then draw conditions, but sometimes you reverse these two if reversal is on recharge.

Absum · Jan 16, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

I believe Absum meant draw conditions + mending touch.

oi... yes. Thanks for the graceful correction.

bungusmaximus · Jan 16, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

I run a Blessed Light monk in TA. paired with dissmiss condition it's quite enough imo. I tried Zealous Benediction but I can't keep up with hex/condition pressure when running that because I only have veil and dissmiss condition on my bar then, which is not enough for me.
I run something like this:
Siphon Speed
Signet of Devotion
Reversal of Fortune
Blessed Light
Dissmiss Condition
Holy Veil
Protective Spirit
Shield of Absorption

Chaotic Legend · Jan 16, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

I had not thought of using draw conditions and mending touch combo in RA, but that would theoretically solve both of the concerns I was having. Although I will most likely drop my res sig and try out both that and using CoP with a pre-veil for daze removal.

Although I do like my res sig to compensate for all of the non res sig players that go into RA and always end up on my team. Next time I am in RA (maybe wednesday) I will give all the suggestions a try and see which one I like the best.

Thanks for the help all, much appreciated.

r3dsk4r3 · Jan 17, 2007, 03:08 AM // 03:08

if you're going to run draw+mend be sure to get the disciple's armor for the +15 while afflicted w/ condition bonus. Just be sure not to clear your conditions too quickly unless they are debilitating.

Given that you'll probably have your own conditions and hex degen the extra conditions don't really matter, provided they aren't cripple/daze.

I Phoenix I · Jan 17, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I prefer [wiki]Dismiss Condition[/wiki] > Draw + Touch, as it's 1 skill slot vs 2 skill slots.

skillsbas8 · Jan 17, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

When monking, I almost always stick mo/a with a draw/ mend touch combo. If I do draw dazed, kite around a bit, and return to a position where you can sucessfully cast mend touch. I find this the most useful without having to abandon too much hex removal.

Ganks · Jan 26, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

I use dismiss condition and thats it. If you really want some more condition control you can put in purge conditions but I dont recommend it. You should be able to do it with just dismiss condition.

If that isnt manageable your other guys arent putting out enough damage and you might as well /resign

urania · Jan 26, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

<3 draw+mend touch.

any place.

any time.

Acidic Won · Jan 26, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Draw Conditions + Mending Touch = Not in RA. TA if you can organzie a 3rd party drawer thats most likely a good idea. In RA/TA/GvG most likely you want to go Dismiss Condition. I find that to be very good and out beats any other condition removal most of the time and when in RA you want it MOST of the time.

Divineshadows · Jan 26, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acidic Won

Draw Conditions + Mending Touch = Not in RA.

I've never had any problems using it in RA. I've even used it in RA on monk secondaries such as a reaper's mark N/Mo. Works wonders. For certain monk bars I have run in RA, my bar has been a bit tighter due to wanting to bring 2 skills from my secondary rather than just one. In those cases, I run dismiss condition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acidic Won

TA if you can organzie a 3rd party drawer thats most likely a good idea. In RA/TA/GvG most likely you want to go Dismiss Condition. I find that to be very good and out beats any other condition removal most of the time and when in RA you want it MOST of the time.

I've stated this before in this thread. Every skill has both a time and an energy cost. When designing builds, both of these costs should be considered for each skill you place on each of the characters.

Not many of the TA builds I design have a non-monk character who has both the time and the energy to use draw conditions. Maybe once blinding surge gets nerfed (to 10 energy as shown in this past test weekend) I'll find draw useful again on midline characters. At the moment what I find most useful for monk support is hex removal on other characters (such as an off-monk purge signet or an off-monk convert hexes on an E/Mo). Another thing that is useful to support a monk in TA is an off-monk gift of health, but this requires both a skill slot and a 9-10 attribute spec so it doesn't fit in many builds.

There are other key things to consider here. A ZB monk spamming draw with 12 to 14 divine favor is actually healing in the process and at 14 prot healing themself for fair amounts as well. A mid-liner spamming draw is doing no healing in the process and taking a lot of energy away from what their primary role is. A ZB monk with mending touch and shield of absorption is significantly harder to kill than a ZB monk with dismiss condition and shield of absorption. A ZB monk can cast reversal, then draw, and then reversal again as soon as reversal has recharged. Using dismiss condition in the middle instead of draw spaces out the two reversals by a bit more than 2 seconds. A monk kiting a melee and stopping momentarily to remove a blind from their own melee using draw doesn't have to stand still quite as long as monk trying to do the same thing with dismiss.